Joe Bugner reveals what it was like to punch his old adversary and friend Muhammad Ali

It’s been 40 years since Joe Bugner went 15 rounds with Muhammad Ali for the heavyweight championship of the world. Aussie Joe, 65 this week, has lived on the Gold Coast for more than two decades and recently had a stent placed in his heart. But he comes out swinging to talk about his greatest opponent.

MANY PEOPLE SAY MUHAMMAD ALI WAS THE GREATEST ATHLETE IN HISTORY? WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE?
Very difficult. We fought twice. Ali was so fast and evasive. He was hard to nail with more than one punch at a time but I did manage to get my left jab going in both fights and I connected with plenty of shots. I trained very hard for both fights. I’m proud of the fact that I’m the only man in history to go the distance with both Ali and Joe Frazier. And I went the distance with Ali twice, in 1973 in Las Vegas and again in 1975 in Kuala Lumpur.
ALI TALKED HIMSELF UP BETTER THAN ANY ATHLETE IN HISTORY. HE CALLED HIMSELF “THE GREATEST.” WAS HE REALLY THAT GOOD OR WAS HIS REPUTATION INFLATED BY THE HYPE?
He was that good. To me he was like football’s Georgie Best, a great natural talent with charisma. He had two great weapons. He was utterly fearless no matter what happened in a fight and he was able to dominate opponents psychologically as much as physically. His speed for a big man was quite incredible. He was the greatest heavyweight of all time in my opinion. He was bigger than the sport of boxing, too. He marketed his own fights and himself unlike any athlete in history.
ALI BECAME SUCH A BIG FACTOR IN YOUR LIFE. WHEN DID YOU FIRST LAY EYES ON HIM?
He came to London in 1963 to fight Henry Cooper, who was a big star in England and a man I eventually beat for the British, Commonwealth and European titles. Ali was still known as Cassius Clay then. The fight was a huge outdoor event at Wembley Stadium. Ali was winning but Cooper landed a big left hook and dropped him at the end of the fourth round just as the bell rang. Ali was badly hurt but he came out the next round and unloaded on Cooper and the fight was stopped because of a bad cut.

THEN HE BECAME THE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP?
The next year Ali won the title in a big upset against Sonny Liston, a fighter I later sparred with, a big powerful guy who terrified everyone. But Ali gave him a boxing lesson. Then Ali came back to England in 1966 and stopped Cooper again at Arsenal’s Stadium in Highbury in London. Both the Cooper fights were huge news in England. At the time I was a schoolboy more interested in athletics than boxing. I was England’s national junior discus champion at 14. Track and field was my first love but I was also doing boxing training at the Bedford Boys Club and my coach thought I showed a lot of promise.
SO WHEN DID YOU AND ALI FIRST MEET?
In New York in 1969. I was 19 years old and Ali was attempting a comeback after being banned from boxing for three years for refusing to join the American army. I’d been boxing as a professional since 1967 and was seen as a rising star in Britain. My managers took me to America to train with some of the greats. Ali offered me $10,000 — which was a small fortune in those days — to spar with him. I first met him in a coffee shop at Lowe’s Midtown Hotel in Manhattan while I was having breakfast. There were 200 people surrounding him as soon as he walked in. The first thing he says is ``so you’re this white boy thinks he can whup me? You caaan’t whup me. Man you soooo ugly. Your mamma must have been sad when she had you.’’ I said “Muhammad if you think I’m ugly you haven’t seen my sister.” That stunned him. For the first time in his life he was speechless. But then he came back and said: “Boy, know how fast I am? I’m so fast I can put the light out and be in bed before it gets dark.”
SO HOW DID THE SPARRING GO?